Andrew Huberman's Advice to Stop Doomscrolling: Is It Enough?
Welcome everyone to the Lion Counseling Podcast. You pick up your phone to check just one thing, and suddenly thirty minutes are gone. So today, we're reacting to Andrew Huberman's advice for breaking the mindless scrolling cycle. Zack, let's do it.
Andrew Huberman:How do we stop ourselves from mindlessly scrolling on our phones? So I think it gets to the point of reflexive, and it's compulsive, and it might be addictive. But I think social media can be really useful. So I think you can set timers. You try graying out the screen, getting rid of the color thing.
Andrew Huberman:There's all this stuff. But I think if there are particular apps that you're struggling with, I would just delete them from your phone and and do a reinstall. And then you have to limit the amount of time because that's enough of a behavioral barrier. There are enough steps involved, enough sequencing to put the thing back on there each day and each time, maybe twice a day, that you're going to vastly reduce your use. How do we stop?
Zack Carter:Alright. So you talked about some practical steps of reducing. Delete it from your phone. You have to reinstall, gray out your phone. Yeah.
Zack Carter:What do you think?
Mark Odland:I mean, my first reaction is who is this guy? I mean, is he is he even a real scientist? What is going on? Right. I'm kidding.
Mark Odland:I'm kidding. Huberman, yeah, man. He's he's become one of the biggest podcasts in the world by doing deep dives into synthesizing science so people can understand it and make their lives better. So, yeah, I followed him for a while. I know you're, more the expert on this than me, Zack, with your addiction work, but I I would say it seems like common sense.
Mark Odland:I mean, it seems like it's maybe not the magic bullet, but making those things a little harder for yourself so you don't have to rely on willpower makes intuitive sense to me. But I'd love to I'd love to get your feedback on that. Like, what what do you think from your context working with guys, addiction? Yeah.
Zack Carter:Yeah. Yeah. I think I think it's heading in the right direction. Just the clients I know, that's not gonna be enough with the clients I work with because what'll happen is they'll delete the app a couple times to redownload it, then they get frustrated with the whole process and then just stop doing it. I think the graying out the screen, you know, I...
Zack Carter:I've been trying that recently with my computer, and it is helpful. Like, actually graying out the screen is very helpful to stop being so. For me, it's not social media. It's more of like YouTube. And it just kind of decreases the dopamine hit by having it all grayed out.
Zack Carter:So that's a good solution. So there's two different areas I had. We've got surface level solutions and we've got underlying solutions. I And think the surface levels of solutions are good, but you need more than that. And I'm sure Andrew would agree.
Zack Carter:I'm sure he would. I'm sure he'd agree. So there's some things. There's one thing called the brick right now that a lot of my clients are using that they really like. And what the brick is, is that it like downloads software that doesn't let you access it.
Zack Carter:So you can't download Instagram again or TikTok again or YouTube again. What it does is that you have to actually tap your phone to this like physical electronic brick. It's like this actual token. You can have it on your fridge. You can have it in your car.
Zack Carter:And you actually have to get up out off the couch or get out of bed and go like click the thing. That can be helpful. But what I have to do with some clients is they'll try it on their fridge and then it doesn't work for them. And so that's the step a lot of people don't take is like they quit after the first step doesn't work. It's like, right.
Zack Carter:You have to like keep trying and keep tweaking the plan until you find something that actually works. So some of them will have to like take the brick and leave it in the car. You leave it at the office. So literally after 7PM or whatever the time is that you set, you can't get onto those addictive things. Wow.
Zack Carter:So that's one thing. There are settings in the iPhone itself called Screen Time. Really helpful. And Android has its own. It's a little bit more tricky, but Android has its own.
Zack Carter:So my recommendation to people is you really have to try a bunch of different things. If one thing didn't work for you, don't give up. Like try a few other things that don't allow you to get to it. So that's that's number one. I'm a pause there to see if you have any thoughts before I get to, like, okay.
Zack Carter:Now we gotta solve, like, underlying problems.
Mark Odland:No. I mean, I... I'm intrigued. It sounds like it sounds like the brick is one more step someone has to go through versus just having a blocker on their device. And I I...
Mark Odland:You feel like it's tricky. Right? With addiction, people can go into this trance mode, this autopilot
Zack Carter:Mhmm.
Mark Odland:Kind of way of thinking where whatever free will you have just kinda starts shrinking and shrinking and shrinking. And where that moment is, where you're off the cliff, and who are you kidding? You're gonna do it. Mhmm. Like, that might be different for every guy, but it seems like anything that can make it harder to get to that cliff probably probably would be helpful.
Mark Odland:Obviously, I know when you do your comprehensive work with guys, you go a lot deeper. Mhmm. And I'm guessing practical things to make it harder, but also the deep work to understand themselves, their patterns, their behaviors, their emotions, all that good stuff.
Zack Carter:Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And I love I love how you're differentiating it because for some clients, they can get the brick and leaving it on their fridge is just enough of a barrier to keep them from just the mindless addictive habit. For some people, leave it in the car is enough.
Zack Carter:For other people, like they're gonna put the clothes on. They're gonna go out and they're gonna unblock their phone to like get back to whatever they're watching on their phone or getting to on their phone. And so for some people it's literally like, nah dude, you gotta have it like at the office or you gotta have it at a friend's house or at your parent's house.
Mark Odland:I see.
Zack Carter:So it really depends on depends on the guy. But like you said, so that's that's the surface level solution. So a couple things as far as, like, underlying, you do want to figure out, like, what the heck is it doing for you? And around pornography, and I'm I'm sure it's I'm sure it's probably the same with doom scrolling. I'd have to look a little bit more into it.
Zack Carter:But the the two biggest triggers are stress and boredom for pornography. My guess is that it's probably pretty close with doom scrolling as well. So if you figure out, is it stress? Is it boredom? Is it both?
Zack Carter:Because oftentimes it could be both. As far as boredom, you want to have a like a project in your life that you're doing, something that you actually care about, something that you find important, something that is pushing you forward in some way. And so Mark and I are doing this in our own lives where we were just talking before we were recording about Mark is doing a wrecking event where you're pushing your body and you're like, when you have downtime and as a father and as a business owner, probably not a lot. But when you have downtime, it's like, all right, I'm going to put 180 pounds on or whatever it is you're rocking. And I'm going to go like March for five miles.
Zack Carter:Right. And you're prepping for that. And that's like how you're feeling that extra time. And my guess is that while you're out there doing your thing, especially if you're with a buddy or you're with a family member, you're not thinking about your phone. Like you're like, I'm engaged in this thing.
Zack Carter:For me, I just did a completed marathon. I'm training for another one. When I'm out with my buddy and we're running and we're prepping for our marathon, I'm not I don't... My... I'm not using my phone.
Zack Carter:Yeah. I'm not even thinking about it. So you have to replace one activity with another activity. You can't just not do it usually. You know, if it's stress, what is the things that you do to cope with stress in a healthy way?
Zack Carter:And you have to know that about yourself. And so is it spending time with friends? Is it a good workout? Is it spiritual practices? Is it an emotion wheel?
Zack Carter:Is it going through cognitive behavioral therapy questions to help process your thoughts? But you need to have a series of things that are helping you with that stress anxiety. So you're not automatically going to that phone if it's stress. So could be other things as well, but stress and boredom are the two biggest ones I see. So any any thoughts on that?
Mark Odland:Yeah. Yeah. I think that makes sense to me. Sometimes with my EMDR work, we also try to identify a deep kind of unmet emotional need, which is typically an illusion of I'm in control. I'm loved.
Mark Odland:I'm... It's kind of like an I statement, often something you were deprived of at an earlier stage in your life, and now you're chasing it. You're chasing that feeling. Of course, it's, like, totally irrational. Right?
Mark Odland:Looking at some fantasy thing on your phone is not really... Doesn't really make you good enough or in control or... It's usually the opposite. But the brain seems to chase these basic human needs. And so that's another angle.
Mark Odland:I know there are times where, most guys can go through a program with you, Zack, one of one of your weekly sessions or intensives or concierge services and have an incredible experience with it. Every so often, you'll have someone with enough trauma where where you're like, alright. Maybe some EMDR on top of this could also be helpful. And so, like, I love that we can kind of tag team in that way and, give people the full support depending on their unique situation. But, yeah.
Mark Odland:So that's the only thing I'd really add to it. It seems like it's it's right on what you're saying. I mean, it's, as far as the triggers go for most guys and... Yeah. Yeah.
Zack Carter:A 100%. Yeah. And I love I love that that you you... Oftentimes, you gotta attack it at a bunch of different angles. It's not as simple.
Zack Carter:And this is why I like... And I respect Huberman, and I'm I'm I'm sure this is a sixty second clip. And Huberman does the, like, five hour podcast. And so I'm sure he would agree with us. So this isn't calling them out.
Zack Carter:But, you know, if we're watching a sixty second clip, we do want to make sure we dig a little bit deeper and understand what's going on and that like these devices are designed to get you hooked. And so people then feel a lot of shame that they get hooked. What's wrong with me? And it's like, dude, it's literally designed this way. And it's also really difficult to operate in the world that we live in without these devices.
Zack Carter:Mine is locked down pretty tight. Like there's not much I can do on my phone. And I've done that as a choice. And so am I addicted to my phone? No.
Zack Carter:But my computer's a lot less locked down. And so it's very easy to like Right. Watch a bunch of YouTube videos on the computer. Right? And this is also where I work.
Zack Carter:And so, you know, it's it's tricky. And so what we have to do... So last thoughts is just just kind of as a reminder. Like, if you've tried a couple things, keep trying. Like, keep trying different strategies.
Zack Carter:If you've done the same thing over and over. So like for a lot of my guys, if it's a blocker from pornography, like, this blocker hasn't worked. I've been doing it for years. Blockers don't work for me. Okay.
Zack Carter:Is anybody on the other end of the blocker? Well, no. I'm... I've got my own password. Right.
Zack Carter:So like, you can shut down your own blocker to get to the pornography. No wonder it hasn't worked. Right? We may have to get assistance from other people. So one, make sure you're you're using these technologies to help you in the way that they were intended.
Zack Carter:And two, if this particular strategy hasn't worked, try a different strategy. Right? Make sure you're trying a bunch of different ones. And three, sometimes strategies do work, but they're not perfect. And so we say, you know, oh, well, yeah, I've been doing good on my phone for two weeks, but, you know, I just spent five hours on my device.
Zack Carter:So, obviously, this isn't working. Or maybe it got you a lot of the way there, and you need to do a few more things to get you even better. Right? And so those are just some things I wanted to, like, throw out there to to think about for the listeners.
Mark Odland:No. That's good stuff, Zack. A closing question for you. In your expert opinion
Zack Carter:Mhmm. If
Mark Odland:hypothetically hypothetically, last night, I spent an extra half hour watching an ex rapper react to country love songs. Does that sound like a problem?
Zack Carter:That sounds like a good use of your time. A 100%. That you don't wanna have blockers for. You need to engage in that kind of content a 100%.
Mark Odland:That's what I was hoping. I'll tell my friend who did that. Your friend.
Zack Carter:My friend. Yeah. Yeah. Tell him tell him. Very normal.
Zack Carter:Very, very normal.
Mark Odland:Okay. Okay.
Zack Carter:Not pathological in any way.
Mark Odland:Alright. Sounds good. Sounds good. Well, this is good, Zack. This is good.
Mark Odland:Actually, joking aside, very helpful practical advice. If anyone out there is listening and actually wants to take things to the next level, if you try some of the low hanging fruit, try these things, make some progress, but it's still not where you wanna be. That's what we're here for. Escapethecagenow.com. You could schedule a clarity call with Zack.
Mark Odland:Develop a plan to to go after this stuff. It can be, like you said, Zack, full of shame. It can be full of discouragement at time... At times, but, there are real solutions, and people can, break free of this stuff. So, just leave you guys with that message.
Mark Odland:So thanks everyone for listening. Yeah.
Zack Carter:Like and subscribe. Like and subscribe.
Mark Odland:Love it. Love it. Alright. Take care, guys. Bye.
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