Think You’re Boring? You’re Probably Doing This Wrong
If you think that you're boring, this Reddit post argues you may be thinking about what makes someone interesting completely wrong. Zack, let's jump into it.
Zack Carter:Yeah, man. So I found this this post
Mark Odland:that I
Zack Carter:thought was super interesting. So the writer says, my heart breaks every time I see someone calling themselves boring. You're looking at it all wrong and that's why you still feel the same way. Please the please read this and I'll try to prove it to you. So first, you find a lot of people that think of themselves as boring, Mark?
Mark Odland:That's that's really interesting. Do do people think of themselves as boring? I won't say many people confess that to me. Mhmm. I think I've had a couple people who are close to me wonder, like, after having a you know, we're hanging out with friends or something, and then they're kind of maybe insecure about, like, hey.
Mark Odland:Was I interesting enough? Was I engaging? Like, how did I come off? Like and maybe that has to do with more with ruminating a little bit about after the but I don't know. How about you?
Mark Odland:Do do you see that?
Zack Carter:Yeah. I don't know if they put it in those words, but I think it's like people don't like me. Like, something like that
Mark Odland:where Yeah.
Zack Carter:Where, like, people mind reading, and they say, this other person isn't interested in me or doesn't like my stories. And I I also know that there are signals in our society now that we send maybe unintentionally that we're not interested in a person. So if we talk about ourselves too much or if we are on our phone, like if some, if you're trying to talk to someone and they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, and they're like, they play on their phone a little bit while you're trying to talk to Even if the other person thinks, oh, oops. What that communicates is is whatever you're saying is not as important as this thing on my phone right now. And so that that I will say I've seen.
Mark Odland:That's a good point. That's a good point. In the times when I have been too addicted to my phone and I'm tempted to look at my phone when I'm talking with someone, I can feel it. I can feel like, oh. Like, if I look there right now, they're gonna feel like I don't care.
Mark Odland:It's like, dude. Oh, I gotta take a step back. Right? The other thought that comes to mind is a vague memory of being a kid and having some, like, random, like, second uncle or something. Like, look at a kid who yawns, and they're like, oh, am I boring you?
Mark Odland:And I remember thinking, I'm just tired. I'm just a kid. I'm just yawning. It's an involuntary reflex. But now that I think about it, maybe maybe you are a little boring.
Zack Carter:Oh, no.
Mark Odland:No. No. I I didn't I didn't anyway.
Zack Carter:And I and I that's funny. But, know, I you know, and I do have clients where sometimes I try to, like like, I'm on the call and I'm like, I do need to yawn because I'm tired, not because I'm numbered enough.
Mark Odland:Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Zack Carter:My face or whatever. And so yeah. Okay. So let's let's keep going and just Yeah.
Mark Odland:It's okay, Zack. That's alright.
Zack Carter:Whatever you wanna say next. Alright. Here we go. Alright. People don't care if you're interesting.
Zack Carter:They care how you make them feel. Here's a thought experiment. Picture yourself alone at a fancy cocktail party that you have to attend for work. You would like to talk to people, but you aren't sure what to say. At different times during the evening, two different people approach you and make conversation.
Zack Carter:Well, they're doing good if they approach you. I feel like people don't usually do that. You know, go out of their way to talk to people. I think that's a tough skill too.
Mark Odland:Yeah.
Zack Carter:All So right. Let's start with Bob. Bob approaches you. You find out he just bought a boat, a 30 foot five foot with two engines. He wrecked his old one racing it off the coast of Portugal last year and almost died.
Zack Carter:He's been doing kettlebell workouts to get his body back into shape and it's working great. He thinks the wine they served at the cocktail party is crappy, and he bets they don't have a single real sommelier in the building. He's going to do something about that actually because he knows the guy that owns the place. He leaves his number on a napkin and says, hey. Let's get coffee before he answers his Bluetooth headset and runs off.
Zack Carter:Alright. What do you think of Bob so far, Mark?
Mark Odland:Oh, man. I see where she's going with this. Right? It's like or the author. Yeah.
Mark Odland:So so Bob is, like, pretentious. He's full of himself. It's all about me. He wants attention. You know, it's kinda like I don't know if this is a thing where where you are, Zack, but in Minnesota, it's a big deal with Christmas cards to include a letter of like here's the summary of our family's year.
Mark Odland:And if you're not careful that that letter can become everyone see how good I look like Ron Burgundy in Anchorman. It could be like here's all the vacations we took and all the accomplishments of my children and this is kind of like a written version of polished Facebook posts with filters. So it's like
Zack Carter:my mind. It's like a resume of the year. Kind of.
Mark Odland:And that's and that's cynical to think about it that way, but there's it's all there's a little bit of that. So so, yeah, I think you have to compete with that energy. Right? So if you're talking with Bob, you start kinda wondering why isn't my life interesting? Why am I not going on vacations?
Mark Odland:Is something wrong with me? Am I jealous, or am I excited for him? Like, there's just it's an interesting dynamic emotionally with someone like that.
Zack Carter:Yeah. You're like, I I need to wreck my boat off Portugal. You know? You know, in fact, I need to get a boat so I can wreck my boat off of Portugal. Yeah.
Mark Odland:You're not really living. You're not really living until you do do something like that. And that's add that to the bucket list.
Zack Carter:Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Okay. So Bob is coming across as a little pretentious.
Zack Carter:Got it. Yeah. Now we have Larry. So Larry approaches you. He said that he's feeling a little bit shy, and he noticed that you were standing there alone.
Zack Carter:He doesn't care for big parties full of strangers. He asked if you like doctor who. You aren't really you you don't really, but you say you've heard of it, and there's an awkward pause. He asks what you do for fun, and you say you love doing archery and renaissance fairs. He's never done anything like that, but he's interested to know more.
Zack Carter:Do they do those around here? What time of year? Do you get do you have to dress up or can you just go? When's the next one? Larry says if you ever need someone to go with you, that he's down and he asks if he can add you on Facebook.
Zack Carter:Okay. Who are you gonna call? Bob or Larry? So what do think of Larry?
Mark Odland:I mean, Larry sounds a little nerdy. Well, maybe maybe a little boring, but a nice guy. He's he's genuinely interested. He's, like, easy to talk to, it sounds like. Seems likable.
Mark Odland:Like, maybe he's not the coolest kid in the class, but he's, seems like a good guy. So that's that's my initial impression.
Zack Carter:Yeah. And I think I think the post is is on to something for sure. That if you ever read the book, how to win friends and influence people, it asks the question, what is a person's favorite topic? And so I'll ask this to clients. Like, what do you think if you're struggling to make friends, what do you think are people's favorite topic?
Zack Carter:Person's favorite topic is themself is the answer, right? And so, people like people who are interested in them. And so essentially, what this post is getting at is, if you want people to like you, like them. Show that you like them. Show that you're interested in them.
Zack Carter:They didn't, they don't say this but remember their name, right? Remember their kids names if you can. Remember what they do for a job. Show interest in the job. Show interest in their hobbies.
Zack Carter:And so even like the, I would argue if I was to critique Larry, he starts off by saying, do you like Doctor Who? Right? It's like, better question is, what are your interests? Right? Because if you start off with a closed ended question that ends like they said, the conversation ends awkwardly.
Zack Carter:It's like, oh, no. I don't watch Doctor Who. Right? So, you know, a good way to start that conversation is, hey, what interests you? And those open, being good at open ended questions and being curious about people is killer.
Zack Carter:Know, which makes me think of, you know, the first time we met up with you and your wife, y'all were down in Florida. Yeah. And you and Rachel are so good. Like, me and my wife were sitting there and y'all are just asking questions and asking questions and asking questions. And, like, I know what I I knew what was happening in the sense of, like, oh, they're really good at doing this and showing interest in people.
Zack Carter:And I know the reason my wife and I liked spending time with you guys is because y'all showed interest in us, because y'all have any questions about us. So Oh, it's Yeah. It's kind of where my mind goes.
Mark Odland:Oh, that's nice to you, Zack. I'm glad I'm glad it came off though that way. You know? And it it is interesting because on one hand, you know, as therapists, as counselors, it's like our skills and our job. But then the more you learn, a lot of it kinda becomes part of you.
Mark Odland:And you're not like, I'm gonna reserve good listening skills for my clients and be a bad listener with people in my personal life or professional life that we care about. Right? So, but you're right. How you know, I I think I've maybe shared with you before, like, I had a a former pastor that, unfortunately died of cancer a while back, but he's a great leader, managed a a very large church faithfully. But he had a sermon where he said at at your funeral someday, no one's gonna care.
Mark Odland:No one's gonna remember how much money you made, your list of accomplishments. Or if they do, it won't matter so much. What they're gonna remember is how you made them feel when they were with you. Like, man, that that is powerful. That that is a powerful thing.
Mark Odland:And, in a day in an age where we're full of distractions and technology, the art of being present and giving someone your undivided attention, as one book said, attention giveaways is in such short order these days that it's like a treasure. So if if someone listening wants a superpower to make friends, open up opportunities in your life, and just have genuine unexpected connections with other people, like you said so well, Zack, actually wanting to like them, caring about them, asking good questions, making them feel like they matter, and not being fake, like getting your heart in a place where you actually do care about them, not just fake it. Cool things could happen. I mean, I'd like to think. At least I'd to think that way.
Zack Carter:And I'm I'm so glad you said that last part of actually genuinely caring about them. Mhmm. You know, my older brother read how to win friends and influence people, and he said he felt like it was like a manipulative book. Mhmm. And I guess he read it with with one particular lens, and I read it with the other.
Zack Carter:It's because I hear about people, here are the skills to show them. Right? Yeah. But yeah. I mean, if you could use these skills in order to manipulate people too because you're like, oh, all I gotta do is use their name, compliment them, remember what they tell me, ask questions about them, and then like, cool.
Zack Carter:This person likes me and then I can sell them something, right? It's like, yeah, okay, yeah, you you could definitely use that to manipulate, but I think, I think being able to genuinely care about people and say like, okay, I want to make friends. I want to connect with people. This this is the way to do it. The last thing, you know, I I criticized Larry for a second about, you know, asking about Doctor Who was probably not like the the best starter question but when I have clients with social anxiety, how do you overcome social anxiety?
Zack Carter:You overcome it by instead of focusing on yourself, what do I do with my hands and like, do people think I'm dumb? Did I, did, I tried to be funny and no one laughed. Like, if you focus on yourself, that social anxiety cranks up but if you focus on the other person, that's what Larry did. Larry was like, hey, I'm a little shy. You know, so he actually like came out and showed a little vulnerability.
Zack Carter:It was like, but I saw you by yourself. I thought I'd come to you and talk to you for a minute and then started asking about the other person. Like, that's exact if you have social anxiety, that's exactly what you wanna do. You wanna focus on how do I help that person to have a good time at this
Mark Odland:Yeah.
Zack Carter:Not how do I have a good time. And so that that's actually, you know, a skill that's in high demand. Most people don't do this. So if you learn how to do this, you're gonna be way above the vast majority of people.
Mark Odland:Yeah. And as you learn social skills, actually having making yourself I mean, makes we work with a lot of guys. Right? A lot of guys who are in some ways they're crushing it in life, right, in business, entrepreneurship, but in other ways they're seeing some things not work. And one of those things might be the listening.
Mark Odland:It might be the empathy they show. It might be the way they can be present or not present with their families, right? So and the circles that these guys run-in, if you are too boring, you know, that actually can be a thing too. Right? Not just the listening skills, but just like I mean, you see this with couples.
Mark Odland:Right? They're sitting across from each other at the restaurant, staring at it, you know, staring at their food. And I kinda peek over, and there's like, I don't think they've said a word to each other in the last, like, five minutes. And then maybe one in 10 are, like, they just have such a deep love and understanding that they can be content and safe enough to just sit in silence together. Yeah.
Mark Odland:Maybe. Or maybe they live such boring lives and haven't done anything new for so long they have nothing to talk about. So I think there's also something to be said for, yeah, you don't have go as far as Bob, But living life, taking risks, going after things, having stories to tell, not in a jerky, socially, like, unaware way, but I bet that that's kinda me pushing back a little bit on on on Larry being the winner is that, you know, I was having coffee with a buddy of mine, and he's we're we're gonna do this, go ruck challenge, right, where we're in San Diego doing Navy Seal stuff with 30 pounds on our back. And he used to be an ultra runner, ultra trail runner. And I aspire to be like that.
Mark Odland:You know? I'm like a former I kind of it was like, I was a former college football player and all these things, and now I'm, like, trying to, like, how do I stay tough? And then I met this guy at the YMCA who's like a real life David Goggins. He, like, lost 200 pounds in a year, and now he's doing these incredible things. And me and my buddy are like, I don't know how many guys are like that here in Duluth, Minnesota.
Mark Odland:Like, it seems like the older we get, the less and less people we know who are not alone doing some kind of cool training. I know you're you're training for a marathon. Right, Zack? But people who, like, won't even get off the couch. And so there's there's something to be said for, like, finding your band of brothers who sharpen you, who challenge you, and it can be hard.
Mark Odland:It can be hard to find. So not that you have to be this condescending pompous guy, but striving to be better, striving to to live an interesting life. I don't know. Maybe I'm like a bit like, if Bob and Larry had a baby, that's what it looks like right here. That's it.
Mark Odland:I don't think that's biologically possible, but if it were, maybe I'd be a weird hybrid. Or Very nice.
Zack Carter:I love it. Yeah, man. You know? I I yeah. I I love all that you're saying.
Zack Carter:We're the last place that my mind goes is okay. So I'm gonna go out and I'm gonna ask people about themselves, which is really great. What happens if they don't ask me about me? Like, should I connect with people who don't ask me about me? Oh.
Zack Carter:Yeah. I'm I might have told the story previously on the podcast, but I went to this, like, church worship get together or it was like, you know, 30 or 40 or 50 people there, something like that and you know, I, you know, I'm I'm at the age, man. I I think it's once I got married, I was like starting to see like, what's the point in going into crowds anymore because I'm not looking for a woman. It sounds like harder for me like, I'm like, oh, that was a huge motivating factor to like go out and do stuff and now I'm like, why don't we just hang out at the house, right?
Mark Odland:Right. Oh, right. Yeah.
Zack Carter:Like fight that. I have to fight that all the time now because I'm out looking for a woman. So I'm at this thing and I'm like, alright, I know what I gotta do in order to like talk to people and meet people. So I'm like going up and I'm putting in the work. I'm going up and I'm talking to people and I'm asking them their names and I'm remembering their names and I'm asking them about their life.
Zack Carter:I probably went up to about 10 people. How many people do you think asked me about me? Zero. Close. One.
Zack Carter:One. Yeah. 10%. Bro, that's brutal statistic. Especially, like, it's a church.
Zack Carter:We're all serving in the same group. And I'm not like I I'm not trying to insult the people that were there. I think if I did that in any group, I think it would be the same. Like, wherever I go. Like, it would probably be 10% of people that would, like, show genuine interest in me.
Mark Odland:Yeah.
Zack Carter:And so kind of my rule for close friendships is that I'm not willing to invest time and energy into a person that's not willing to invest time and energy into me. And so I've got a smaller group of friends that when I hang out with them, I ask them about them. They tell me about their life, and then they ask me about me.
Mark Odland:I tell them about my life.
Zack Carter:They they, like, ask questions to expand. They show that they're genuinely interested, and that's the relationships I actually invest time into.
Mark Odland:Yeah. That's really good, Zack. I I can't tell you how many times, you know, my wife is in in the field as well as a as a life coach, and there are times when we just get back in the car after some kind of group gathering or social event or something. And we just we should probably set our bar lower because we've been disappointed so many times. But it's like, you can have a great person who you know is intelligent.
Mark Odland:They've got a average or above average IQ, and they just absolutely are terrible at listening. And it's most it's the norm. I mean, just basic things like you share it. You know, they they talk about themselves for several minutes. And then instead of saying, oh, yeah, how about you?
Mark Odland:How are you doing? Seems like that'd be kinda basic, right? No. People don't do it. People They don't.
Mark Odland:They don't do it. Or the other big one is you start to tell a story. Oh my gosh. That totally reminds me of this thing that I did. And then they're off.
Mark Odland:And then and then if you are a compassionate, empathetic person who wants to be nice and police people, then you become a you become a hostage. You are a hostage. And then you get done with that, and you're like, what just happened? So I maybe made them feel good with my questions, but it was never reciprocated. And so can that become a deep friendship?
Mark Odland:Probably not unless the other person kinda figures a few things out. 100%.
Zack Carter:Yeah. And I I can't tell you how many clients I have that struggle in relationships, and I have to start with, like, some basics that I think it's two hundred hours. You have to spend time. You have to spend about two hundred hours with a person to have a deep, meaningful relationship. So that's already a high bar if you're if you're starting the process of trying to meet a friend.
Zack Carter:Then on top of that, you have to find a person is actually somewhat knowledgeable in how to interact with other human beings and actually takes an interest in you. And, you know, I just want to talk to everybody out there that like, if you feel like you're in the wrong on this and you stinking like, okay, cool. Like, work on what you can work on but also know that it may not be a 100% on you that you don't have close friends. It may be that like as a society, we're beginning to really suck at interpersonal relationships. Yeah.
Zack Carter:And that's also a big factor. For sure. I mean, my buddy told me that the the prom at
Mark Odland:the high school his kids go to is like, this is the norm now. The the kid goes as a group with all the friends, and none of them have dates. There's, like, a dozen of them, and they all show up with their fancy dresses, but they don't have dates. No one asked each other out. No one had the guts to it's I mean, it's like, it's a thing.
Mark Odland:People are on their phones. They're scared to date. They're scared to talk. And these youth directors at churches around the country are being like, step one, we're having social interaction without the phones. You could talk to that girl.
Mark Odland:It's okay.
Zack Carter:Like so it's it is a thing that I'm laughing, but it's sad. It's like because I know that if I was born at this time, I'd be struggling with it too. You know? So it's like, that's so brutal, man. But adults, we don't have, like, people that are now if you're at least okay.
Zack Carter:I'm 35. If you're around my age or above, you don't have an excuse. Like, you like, we didn't have smartphones at the time. Like, learn the if you don't understand the basic principles, read how to win friends and influence people, practice those principles Yeah. Engage in those principles.
Zack Carter:If you're a young person, like, man, like, you need to do the same thing, but, like, you got a little bit more of an excuse, but ultimately, it's still on you. No one else is gonna teach you how to do it. So
Mark Odland:Seriously. Well, it's a good stuff, Zack. I mean and if you're listening today, if you take away nothing else, just know if you're struggling in this area, you can definitely improve really quickly with just a couple ideas. Don't interrupt people. Genuinely find a way to care about the other person and ask questions.
Mark Odland:Ask them how they're doing. Don't make it a monologue. People get tired of it. And so and yeah. And and I I appreciate that you're sharing some compassion there, Zack.
Mark Odland:Like, okay. If I were born into this, I'd probably be that way too. Yeah. That's probably fair. And so we can't control the hand we're dealt, but we can't control what we do with it.
Mark Odland:And so if someone out there is listening, as always, if if you're looking for a little, coaching, counseling, a little extra support from me or Zack, we're here. We we do a a clarity call if you wanna test the waters and see if it'd be a good fit. Go to escapethecagenow.com and, yeah, learn more. We'd be happy to work with you.
Zack Carter:All right.
Mark Odland:All right. Thanks everybody. Bye.
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