Real Therapy Isn’t Comfortable: Why You Need to Face the Pain
Sometimes, you know, I think about these images, these metaphors of, like, a blacksmith forging like a samurai sword, right, in ancient Japan. And they're taking this thin metal and they're folding it over and over again. It's this long process. You have to be a master kind of blacksmith, swordsmith to be able to do. But the end result is this beautiful, perfectly balanced tool, weapon, right, that be used for protection.
Mark Odland:And it can be like that a little bit with therapy too. You can kind of think to yourself, okay, I'm being forged. I am being pressure tested, right? I am being folded and shaped into something stronger. And yes, it's gonna hurt to to feel the heat.
Mark Odland:It's gonna hurt to feel the pounding of the hammer. It's gonna hurt to be folded and twisted. But on the other side of it, right, with God's help, is there's some really good things that can come of it. Right? Especially if we are doing it for a purpose, doing it for a reason.
Mark Odland:Therapist.
Zack Carter:And I'm Zach Carter, counselor and coach.
Mark Odland:And our mission is to help men to break free, to heal deep, and to become the Lions they were created to be. In today's episode, we're going to talk about therapy. And despite what you might have been told, real therapy is not about chasing comfort. It's about staring into the abyss of our deepest fears and choosing not to run away. So in this episode, we're gonna explore why facing emotional pain with courage is really the only path to lasting strength, healing, and transformation.
Mark Odland:And since you're already here, if you could hit that subscribe button, we'd really appreciate it. Helps us get the word out to more men. Alright, everybody. Yeah. Let's jump in.
Mark Odland:Alright. So I know when it comes to therapy, some people have this image, Zach, right? Of I'm going to just going to go sit on the couch and there's like maybe some incense going and like really lots of throw pillows and maybe a warm cup of coffee in my hand and maybe some gentle music in the background. And it's just it's all about making me feel comfortable. Right, Zach?
Mark Odland:That's that's everything.
Zack Carter:Yeah. That's all I do.
Mark Odland:That's what I thought. That's what I thought. Let's be honest. I mean, a nicely decorated room can help. I mean, it can be kind of nice.
Mark Odland:It could feel kind of cozy, right? But I think especially for our guy listeners, there's a, you know, there's this interesting thing of like, is that it? Is it just about feel comfortable? And it can feel good. It can feel good to have a therapist who's compassionate.
Mark Odland:But compassion without accountability, that can lead to kind of a dishonest, inauthentic vibe in the relationship, honestly, in therapy or in coaching. There can be in therapy kind of an ultra focus on comfort, but the therapist doesn't challenge you. And so in a way, they're enabling kind of weakness, avoidance, right? Kind of reminds me of the other podcast we did, Zach, about different attachment styles, right? The way that the therapist just fuels the feeling of being comfortable all the time sometimes isn't helpful.
Mark Odland:And then finally, there can be that vibe in therapy that so many of us think about when we think about therapy in social media or in the movies, It's just the therapist just nods their head and smiles and affirms everything. You know, you could you could say something that's completely self destructive and the therapist says, okay, well, you do you. Yeah, you you go, Zach. You go do your thing be be the Elsa in frozen and and just let it go and just do your own thing and and reject everything I was like well maybe but let's let's kind of dig in a little deeper and make sure that not self destructive too. So I don't if you have any thoughts on that, Zach, but I know I'm stereotyping.
Mark Odland:I'm kind of making light of it a little bit, but I do get the sense there's some cultural trends toward comfort in therapy.
Zack Carter:Yeah, it's definitely tough to balance, right? And
Mark Odland:as you were
Zack Carter:kind of talking, was thinking about a client recently who would often talk about his wife and all the problems that his wife brought to the relationship. And as we, you know, for a while, you know, I've kind of been team him. Like, as therapists it's really easy to kind of be like on the team of your client. And as we dug in, he started to see what he brought and the problems he brought. And he was like, oh, shoot.
Zack Carter:I'm causing a lot of these problems. And he just had a moment. He just looked distraught. It's like but that is where healing starts. Right?
Zack Carter:If you if you're blaming the other person or blaming life or whatever, and you don't accept your own problems and don't change, then it's gonna keep repeating.
Mark Odland:Right. That's right. No. That that's that's so true. I mean and like so many things in life, they're they're you know, you live at the extremes and you're missing out on something, and and there can be this dynamic tension in the middle where, yes, I mean, if you're working with me or you, Zach, I mean, we're gonna be caring, we're gonna be understanding, we're gonna be supportive, but we're gonna balance that with accountability, with challenge, with reasoning through things, with looking at the big picture, right?
Mark Odland:And so if you're a guy out there and you're kind of thinking, yeah, you know, I'm wondering, I'm curious about this coaching thing. Maybe doing some coaching with Zach, maybe looking at some problem behaviors that I'd like to kind of be rid of in my life, or maybe looking at some deeper healing with Mark doing some EMDR. If you're thinking about therapy or coaching or you're already starting, here's some practical advice for you guys to think about how you might approach it and what you might expect if you're working with a therapist or a coach who sees these things the way we do, right? So the first thing is, I would just encourage you, accept. Accept the emotional pain.
Mark Odland:Accept that it is an inevitable part of therapy. I tell clients sometimes you gotta pick your pain. Either you're going to pick choose pain now and face it on your terms, or you're going to kick the can down the road, and it's gonna show up later in your life. Right? So you gotta accept it.
Mark Odland:You know, I know I'm Christian. I'm not a Buddhist, but I know from studying Buddhism, they'll talk about how, you know, life is suffering. Right? And and and we have our own version of that in Christianity where Jesus is saying, take up your cross and follow me. Do not be surprised when suffering comes.
Mark Odland:Right? We don't we don't welcome it for no good reason, unnecessary suffering, but suffering can be redemptive. Suffering can have a purpose. Pain can have a purpose if it has a direction. Right?
Mark Odland:So accept that as part of the process, right? Second is name the pain, right? Name what it actually is. And in coaching or therapy, that's part of the treatment planning process. And sometimes we joke about it, but just above Zach's head, we can see a little glimmer of something special.
Mark Odland:It's the feelings wheel.
Zack Carter:The feelings wheel.
Mark Odland:It's there. It's back. It's back. So we promise we're not gonna be bombard you with, you know, touchy feely feelings all the time. But let's be honest.
Mark Odland:Alright? If we're gonna name our pain, we have to figure out what that pain is. Right? Is it is it fear? Is it anger?
Mark Odland:Is it rejection? Is it loneliness? Right? And there are different shades to those different emotions as well. And we have to be able to recognize what they are to be able to know what we're gonna do with it.
Mark Odland:Right? I mean, if you're going to battle, right, for your mental health, for for your relationship, for it to be a better man, if if you're like a field general, you have to know the lay of the land. Right? You've gotta you got to make a good battle plan. You have to actually see what's there.
Mark Odland:Is there a river in the way? Is there a mountain we have to cross? You have to see it for what it is. Right? And so so that's part of the process.
Mark Odland:You can be honest about that and and face the truth. Face the truth about what you're feeling, what you're experiencing, where the source of your pain is, and know that you can handle that truth. You can do it. Alright. Here's the next part.
Mark Odland:You gotta face it. You gotta face your pain. And, really, you know, you you can pace yourself, but you you you've gotta move through it. It it's it's hard to you know, you can be strategic in how you ebb and flow around your pain. But at the end of the day, sometimes there's no avoiding the fact that you have to go through it.
Mark Odland:And I think, know, Zach, you know, we're dads, right? My kids are a little older than yours right now. But, you know, as dads, sometimes we we intuitively know this. We're like, you know, our kid falls on the playground and maybe mom comes up and kisses it to make it better. And somehow it works.
Mark Odland:It's like magic. And sometimes as the dad, we're like, it's alright, you're fine. You're fine. Just walk it off, walk it off. And that kind of works too.
Mark Odland:Sometimes it doesn't, but sometimes it works. And there's there's a balance there. Right? Or like that that expression, get back in the saddle. Right?
Mark Odland:Sometimes something happens that's a little scary, a little difficult. We intuitively know that if we avoid it, if we if we give power to that fear, then it might haunt us the rest of our life. And so if you're literally like fall off the horse and it's not a severe injury, you might literally, if you're on the ranch, be like, Okay, buddy, let's get back in the saddle. It's going to be Okay. And then you face the fear.
Mark Odland:You kind of inoculate yourself against that fear and you build some confidence, right? And another place this shows up, right, is when we have phobias, right? Phobias. If you're afraid of mice or insects or snake or snakes or heights, right? Or being in enclosed spaces, right?
Mark Odland:If you're going through that, you know it can really get in the way, it can be pretty intense. And the way that we treat that is either through some kind of in person or virtual exposure, right? It comes not by running away from it, but by finding ways to face it so that you can handle it, right? So I'll pause there, Zach. I don't know if anything's coming up for you as I'm talking about this, but this idea of kind of facing the pain, of moving through it, of exposing yourself to it rather than running away.
Mark Odland:Yeah.
Zack Carter:That's that's actually that so the thing that I've been thinking about sorry. I know you asked me a question on one thing, but the thing that was on my mind was you were Yeah. Facing your fears. And I was, like, trying to think through, like, kind of what what stereotypically is the mom of, hey. Let's talk about your emotions.
Zack Carter:Let's talk about your feelings. Let's let's Sure. Let's let's try to make you feel better. And, like, the stereotypical dad is like, hey. Walk it off.
Zack Carter:Deal with it. Life is hard. Right? And even thinking about, like, Ben Shapiro's famous line, facts don't care about your feelings. And I'm like, yeah.
Zack Carter:But I guess, like, both matter. Like, both both those styles are important, and going too hard one way or the other can be a problem. So that's that's kinda where my mind was going.
Mark Odland:Yeah. I I like that. I think that there is something to be said. I mean, so often, it it's not about, you know, I have a whole different podcast about therapy being more geared toward females than than guys, and that could be a problem. Right?
Mark Odland:But that's not to say that there isn't a place for that. You know, we we have different personalities, different wiring, certain things that are more stereotypical female traits versus male traits. And I'd like to think that in God's wisdom, right, there with all the variations and varieties in His creation, there is a complimentary and kind of beauty to how we balance each other out. So I yeah, I think that's very true Zach. It's not just, I mean, if I think you would probably resonate with this, if we have a guy in our office and all he got growing up was was, it's okay little baby, you know, let me mommy kiss it and oh, I'll protect you and keep you over here.
Mark Odland:Problems like they grow up and they they don't feel confident in their body. They feel like they're fragile. They have like some resentment. And on the flip side, if all they got growing up was the tough. Walk it off.
Mark Odland:Don't cry. No. Come on. Don't be a baby. Get over it.
Mark Odland:Right? There's gonna be issues there too. There's gonna be issues there too. They're gonna miss out on some of the nerve the the nurturing and the reassurance that our nervous system craves. And that comes to another recent podcast, right, about attachment theory that that if you guys are interested, you could check out.
Mark Odland:So, yeah, I I appreciate that, Zach. So, yeah, you gotta face your pain. You you gotta you gotta accept that it's there. You gotta name what it is and then you got to face it. There's no way around it.
Mark Odland:Sometimes I think about these images, these metaphors of like a blacksmith forging like a samurai sword, right, in ancient Japan, and they're taking this thin metal and they're folding it over and over again. It's this long process that you have to be a master kind of blacksmith swordsmith to be able to do. But the end result is this beautiful, perfectly balanced tool weapon, right? That can be that can be used for protection. And it can be like that a little bit with with therapy too.
Mark Odland:You can kind of think to yourself, okay, I'm being forged. I am being pressure tested, right? I am being folded and shaped into something stronger. And yes, it's gonna hurt to feel the heat, it's gonna hurt to feel the pounding of the hammer, it's gonna hurt to be folded and twisted. But on the other side of it, right, with God's help, is there some really good things that can come of it, right?
Mark Odland:Especially if we are doing it for a purpose, doing it for a reason. And when I have guys in my office that are skeptical of this, you know, about whether or not it's worth to face worth it to face the pain, a simple question can really kind of bring it home is, okay, let's say that you don't face this pain, and you just kind of keep doing what you're doing. What's your life going to look like in in one year, in five years, in ten years, in twenty years? If it's an addiction, you might be in the hospital or dead. If it's a marriage that's suffering, it might be a divorce, right?
Mark Odland:If it's a job that's suffering, it might be unemployment, right? And this isn't scare tactic, again, this is not just affirming, hey, everything's gonna be fine, it's saying, okay, let's be honest here, let's be encouraging and hopeful and tap into resources and tap into our faith and find hope and strength, but also be realistic about you know, reality and what happens if nothing changes, right? So I think facing your pain is very important. So after you accept that the pain is there and you name what it is and you choose to face it, then wisdom, right? So my encouragement to you guys would be to pace yourself and your therapist or your coach is gonna help you with this.
Mark Odland:We are trained to not have you dive headfirst into that abyss of darkness and be overwhelmed by it, to be swallowed up by it, to be broken by it, right? We want to help you face it at a pace that's manageable, that's empowering, and that's not overwhelming, right? And so little victories can add up to big victories over time, right? I think one of our first podcast, Zach, was like, was it start silly stoops? Start small or stupid small or something like that?
Zack Carter:Start stupid easy.
Mark Odland:Yeah. Stupid easy. That's it. Start stupid easy, right? And sometimes that first step, this is back to like James Clear's Atomic Habits.
Mark Odland:It's like Jocko Willink, the Navy SEAL saying it's about forward center of mass, just taking that first step to kind of move toward the danger rather than retreating from it. Right. But we can pace these things, we can pace these things. And finally, after you've accepted the pain is there and it's inevitable, you've named what it is, you've increased your awareness, you've chosen to face it. And you're doing it at a pace that you can tolerate with a therapist or a coach that you can actually trust that they know how to help guide you from point A to point B.
Mark Odland:That's kind of the recipe for success, guys. So it's in, I guess the last practical step that is to find that therapist or coach who can do that, who can help you stare into the abyss, right? To look into that darkness instead of retreating from it, and to know that you can do this, that you can do this. And for our guys out there who are men of faith, we're gonna lean on that with you. We're gonna encourage you.
Mark Odland:We're gonna remind you of the hope that we have and the encouragement that we have through our faith and through through God's help. And so there is a path. All that being said, I mean, if if you wanna just curl up on the couch with a bunch of throw pillows and have the therapist say everything's fine, you know, go for it, man.
Zack Carter:Hire this guy. No.
Mark Odland:Sorry. We have some takers, Zach. We have some guys who are like, this sounds awful. I don't this more family guy is ridiculous. I just want my life is already hard out to someone.
Mark Odland:I mean, me just be clear. It's not like Zach, when people come to my office, you can see kind of behind me. It's kind of pretty. Like, it's not like concrete walls that are just gray. And you sit on the floor with like, just like a rat in the corner.
Mark Odland:I'm saying that, but I mean
Zack Carter:I mean, you know, here's here's the thing you guys. Remember, when you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares back. So that's Mark style. My style is the throw pillow. So you choose what you wanna choose.
Zack Carter:So
Mark Odland:My specialty is the darkness facing the darkness of your soul. Sac specialty is stuffed animals. Potpourri. Potpourri. And so if you call up Lion Counseling and you're like, hey, what kind of, do you have someone for me?
Mark Odland:Depends on your style. Depends on your style. But chances are between me and Zach, you'll you'll you'll find it. You'll find someone who can help. That's right.
Mark Odland:Yeah. Yeah. Joking aside, joking, I hope you guy if you guys have been listening for a while, you know that we have a sense of humor about these things. And hopefully, you know that we're we're not just a version of, like, your tough military dad who just told you to get over it. Like, I hope you don't hear that.
Mark Odland:It just feels a little bit like that in contrast to where therapy is trending in general. And so we we definitely strive for that balance. And and if you work with me or Zach, you're gonna know that we genuinely care about about you. We respect you as a fellow man, and we want to show that respect through genuine care and compassion and honesty that you deserve to help you move from point a to point b. So if you're interested, check out escapethecagenow.com.
Mark Odland:We're always happy to help. And as always, hit that like, subscribe button. We appreciate it. It helps get the word out to more guys. So any closing thoughts, Zach, before we close-up for today?
Zack Carter:No. I think that that was great, man. It's it's this combination of facing the difficulties in your life, facing your fears, but the same time doing it in a way that's safe. Right? It's the same way we raise children.
Zack Carter:Right? That we like encourage them to progress over time, but we don't, you know, you don't throw a baby into a Right? Like, like give them floaties, you give them floaties, you teach them a little bit, and then over time they're able to swim, right? And use the diving board and such. So, yeah, that's kind of our style is like, hey, let's let's get into the thing.
Zack Carter:Let's do the hard thing, but we're not gonna take it at a pace that's too overwhelming.
Mark Odland:That's exactly right. That's exact well, thanks. Thanks, Zach. As always, great talking with you. Sure.
Mark Odland:Until next time. Take care, guys.
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