Lion Counseling Podcast

Aaron Dahl: 00:01

I had something kinda different written down, but what I felt like I just put on my heart was

Mark Odland: 00:05

Yeah.

Aaron Dahl: 00:06

Being being someone that would lay down their life for a friend.

Mark Odland: 00:10

Mhmm. Wow.

Aaron Dahl: 00:12

And I think that's, you know, that's the ultimate sacrifice. It's the ultimate sign of love too. Yeah. So I think that's that's the ultimate sign of being a real man. It's not like this macho strong.

Aaron Dahl: 00:28

Mhmm. You know, those are characteristics, but they're off they're oftentimes just pushed to the forefront by our media and our culture. But someone that's obviously gonna provide and protect for their family despite the costs.

Mark Odland: 00:48

Welcome to the Lion Counseling Podcast. I'm Mark Goblin, founder of Lion Counseling and certified EMDR therapist. Our mission is to help men break free, heal deep, and become the lions they were created to be. If you're looking for help, you're always welcome to schedule a free thirty minute call at escapethecagenow.com. Well, today, I have the honor of talking with Aaron Dahl, worship pastor for Eagle Brook Church, one of the biggest churches in the country.

Mark Odland: 01:17

He's an incredibly talented musician, a husband, a father, and a man with a story to tell. In our conversation together, Aaron describes his incredible journey into music as well as a season of destruction that led him to the brink of death. And a miraculous story of recovery and of a God who doesn't give up on us. A God who leaves the 99 to go searching for the one. We talk about manhood.

Mark Odland: 01:43

We talk about family. We talk about leaving a legacy. And make sure to hang on till the very end because Aaron shares a truly creative and innovative, a profound one minute exercise that we as men can use to reflect deeply upon our lives. Let's get right into it, Aaron. Maybe just tell us a little bit about yourself.

Mark Odland: 02:22

I mean, you know, just just your whole life story, just like in ten minutes. Just kidding. No.

Aaron Dahl: 02:26

Yeah. Sure. I mean, I've done that a few times. I'm sure.

Mark Odland: 02:29

Yep. But feel free to do it in a way that's not boring for you. Like

Aaron Dahl: 02:32

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Every way is different, right? Well, thank you for having me.

Aaron Dahl: 02:37

Name is Aaron. I lead worship at a church here, musician, father of four, married to my beautiful wife, Bree. Grew up around the Midwest area. I moved five times before landing in Minnesota. Alright.

Aaron Dahl: 02:50

I grew up playing hockey. Found music at 19 by somehow randomly getting on stage at a sold out POD concert and singing with. POD. And that's what kind of led me into music and I stayed there for ten or twelve years doing the rock band thing and then I eventually found my way to church and leading worship and I'm a pastor. And yeah.

Aaron Dahl: 03:11

So now we just do all the sports things, do all the music things. We have four boys and so it's always just a never a dull moment for sure. Just having something going on.

Mark Odland: 03:20

And and and you're the worship leader for him, like, for a little, like, little farm church with, like, in attendance of, 50 people per Sunday. Right?

Aaron Dahl: 03:27

That's how it started. Yep.

Mark Odland: 03:28

A little a little tiny church.

Aaron Dahl: 03:29

We've evolved now into 14 campuses. Easter, I think we had somewhere in the neighborhood of like 60,000. 60 thousand, I could be wrong. It is so It's in the tens of thousands. Yeah.

Aaron Dahl: 03:42

And there was over 2,000 time decisions and it's just been crazy what God's done through our our church. So I oversee the Blank Campus and the music there, but we also like bounce around other campuses as well.

Mark Odland: 03:55

Nice. Nice. That's awesome. Well, very cool. And as we mentioned a little bit before, you know, starting today, you know, our our kind of our podcast, my counseling center, it's geared toward helping guys.

Aaron Dahl: 04:07

Mhmm.

Mark Odland: 04:07

Kind of exploring those different sides of what it means to be a man, and that's a complicated question in today's day and age. Yep. And so, yeah, affirming that, you know, it's good. Be be a provider. Be a protector.

Mark Odland: 04:18

But what about creating? What about loving? Right? What about as impermanent as this life is, trying to build something that has somewhat lasting value to has a ripple effect to bless other people even after we're gone. Right?

Aaron Dahl: 04:31

Yeah.

Mark Odland: 04:33

And I'm guessing being a hockey guy and a musician, you're you're somewhat of a renaissance man yourself, but zeroing in for your calling on music. I'd love to hear a little bit about that, if you're willing to share, Aaron, just that journey of discovering music, what made you kind of fall in love with it, and then how that kind of dovetailed into into the church and into ministry. Kind of Anything about that story? I'd love to hear what that was like for you.

Aaron Dahl: 05:03

Sure. I think from as young as I can remember, I just always loved music. I loved singing. I would put on my Fisher Price roller skates and skate in the house and play hockey and slash the walls and bang them all up. I would like sing the national anthem before and that kind of led to me like recording myself and doing like play by play commentary and with hockey hockey stuff.

Aaron Dahl: 05:26

I just always sang and I would sing, you know, throughout school and then never really thought about doing a band, but I'd write my own songs.

Mark Odland: 05:32

Oh, cool.

Aaron Dahl: 05:33

And then people would come over and they'd listen and like, oh, that's great. And it kind of was affirmed through the people that I had a good voice. So I just kind of went with it. And the the way I got into music was like just a Mark Wahlberg rock star moment where we had touched on earlier. I was at a POD in Lincoln Park concert and the singer wanted some people to come up on stage.

Aaron Dahl: 05:52

So, I crowd surfed over like a hundred hundreds of heads to get up on there and the the singer like put his arm around me and all of sudden, I'm staring out at 17,000 people and he gives me the mic and I just start singing. We are we are youth of the nation. And someone that was in the audience heard me and was like, got a friend that's looking for a band and they contacted me on Myspace and the rest is kind of history. I joined that band. Two of the members actually quit when I joined because they didn't like my voice.

Aaron Dahl: 06:20

Were going for something else. So that's But that just led me on a journey to like fall in love with music and it, you know, it also the sex, drugs, rock and roll thing also is, you know, immersed in that. That led down a whole dark rabbit hole of addiction and homelessness and in and out of jail and arrest and just became a version of myself where finally, I I was woken up in jail and just couldn't believe how I got there. I was in the hospital at one point and they said, I had a ten percent chance to live and I didn't know how I even ended up there. And so that was kind of my turning point of seeking treatment and going through therapy and you know, in in and out of inpatient treatment and now, it's been seventeen years, which is just crazy to believe.

Aaron Dahl: 07:04

But so music's kind of been its its its own evolving thing through that, but it's been it's been therapeutic. It's been my passion. It's been my my talent. It's been my dream. It's it's also been a way that I've connected spiritually through God.

Aaron Dahl: 07:19

He communicates through music through me. So it's just been a lot of things and I couldn't imagine my life without it, really.

Mark Odland: 07:25

Wow. Oh my gosh. That is that's very it's kind of hard to believe looking at you now. You know? I mean, just thinking about being at death's door like that and miraculous to think about those turning points in our life.

Mark Odland: 07:41

I mean, there's that moment on stage and then connecting with music, but then there's that other path that you talked about getting sucked into that and then and then surviving and then going through this process of healing, which I guess my bias as a therapist, right, is we're we're always in process. Right? Yeah. Never quite done with that on on this side of on this side of heaven. But out of curiosity, you know, has your experience with kind of the recovery the recovery world and the mental health world been mostly positive as it had its ups and downs because I know people actually have different experiences depending on how good a fit how good a fit a certain program is or certain therapist is.

Mark Odland: 08:24

I know lot of guys who are listening to this are kind of skeptical, honestly,

Aaron Dahl: 08:29

of Mhmm.

Mark Odland: 08:30

They think it's it's all this touchy feely stuff that they don't wanna touch with a 10 foot pole.

Aaron Dahl: 08:34

So Right. Yeah. Yep. Think if I could sum it up, what I've learned is that it's not a one size fits all approach. If you have one bad experience, that's not going to be the consensus overall.

Aaron Dahl: 08:48

So, I mean, I did have some bad experiences, but I kept pressing in and I know I needed get help. So I just would find a different counselor, a different therapist and continue to do the research on my own. Everybody's journey is different for sure. And like how much treatment you need or how much the counseling we need. But I feel like we always need a mentor sure.

Aaron Dahl: 09:07

That's someone that we can trust that we can confide in because I think part of like what I've struggled with as a man is like just having someone to confide in and like tell my stuff that I'm going through and

Mark Odland: 09:18

just have someone to be like, I, oh yeah, me too or yeah, you're going

Aaron Dahl: 09:21

to get through it. And like you had touched on earlier, like in elementary school, if you have someone that believes in you and your artwork,

Mark Odland: 09:27

you can go to

Aaron Dahl: 09:28

be Picasso. Like that seed can grow into a huge oak tree, but it can also get snuffed out early too by the wrong people.

Mark Odland: 09:36

Oh, that yeah. That's so true. I mean, in this you know, my specialty is doing trauma therapy with this this EMDR therapy, and it's all about discovering the the seeds that were planted early on that that lead to the lies and insecurities and the the many traumas that most of us carry as men. Wow. And and sometimes they they haunt us and and and they almost become embedded in our in our nervous system.

Mark Odland: 10:00

Right? It's like it's like that feeling of not being good enough or not being safe or being out of control or what fill in the blank. Right? It's like

Aaron Dahl: 10:09

Yeah.

Mark Odland: 10:09

We have a deep memory of that. And then anytime it shows up in our present life, we may not actually have a visual memory of where it went back to, but we have this feeling in our gut. It's like, well, I remember that feeling, and I'm I'm gonna I'm not gonna go anywhere near that.

Aaron Dahl: 10:23

Yeah.

Mark Odland: 10:24

And so that whole seek pleasure, avoid pain thing. And so, yeah, there's power power in in, having the courage to face that stuff and to try to get some deep healing. And and what you said about the mentor too. I mean, I just think that's so important because a lot of us I mean, I think the research shows that a lot of guys, if they're lucky, they have one good buddy and usually their best friend is their wife, and and there's some beautiful things about that. But Mhmm.

Mark Odland: 10:51

At the same time, you know, you think about some of the our ancestors, you know, they're they're off hunting with guys, and they're they're in these little ill packs. And boys are learning from their dads, and and it will you know, it's it's almost like too much pressure for our spouse to be the all in all in a way.

Aaron Dahl: 11:07

1000%, yeah. I think that's what John Deloney had touched on a lot is like the pressure we put on our spouses is insurmountable because we just want them to be everything and everything and expect them to without even really knowing like no person can handle that pressure.

Mark Odland: 11:21

That that's exactly right. Yeah. That that's so good. I'm I'm I'm really excited. My my wife, Rachel, and I were actually going to Denver this weekend for the the Oh, yes.

Mark Odland: 11:31

Country leadership summit. Yes. We're gonna see if Deloney speak again and

Aaron Dahl: 11:35

That's awesome.

Mark Odland: 11:36

Get got some good stuff.

Aaron Dahl: 11:38

Yeah. Very good.

Mark Odland: 11:40

Yeah. Okay. So that's that's that's powerful stuff. So this kind of a a change of direction, but, you know, on that theme of kind of masculinity, our own identity in the world, and also through God's eyes, You know, we kinda developed these templates

Aaron Dahl: 12:00

Mhmm.

Mark Odland: 12:01

Of even what that means. Right? Like, what does a man what does it mean to be a man? Right? It's not an easy question to answer for us sometimes.

Mark Odland: 12:08

And Right. And I think about my own life. I think about growing up. Right? Like, what models did I have of of masculinity?

Mark Odland: 12:17

And because our our earthly fathers are imperfect, they they lay the groundwork for some really good things and some things that are that are more challenging. Right? And I'm sure I'm doing the same as a dad to my kids as as well intentioned as I am. They're you know, someday they might be in therapy and being like, oh, man. My dad was great, but here's this thing.

Mark Odland: 12:34

And

Aaron Dahl: 12:35

Yep.

Mark Odland: 12:35

You know, so it's it's it's again process not perfection, but I'd love to hear if there's anything you're willing to share about whether it was a dad, an uncle, a teacher, a coach. If if there was someone that growing up you you looked at and right or wrong, it's kinda like that's what a that's what a man was and if that's evolved or not for you over time.

Aaron Dahl: 12:58

Yeah. I mean, absolutely, it's evolved. Definitely. And I I think just being in the hockey circle so much, a lot of my manly figures were coaches. And I just read a quote like coaches pull out the best of you and mentors give the best of themselves.

Aaron Dahl: 13:17

It's like the good coaches were the ones that were not trying to get something for themselves. They were trying to pull the best out of everybody in indirect way. You know, like every kid that we have is different. So it's finding the way to like pull that full potential out. But I think like the ones that really made an impact for me were some of my coaches that like believed in me and that were stern on me, didn't get angry because I kind of shut down when coaches would yell and scream just because yeah, traumatic experiences.

Aaron Dahl: 13:49

But now I would say it's just like you said, the provider and protector. I love that you said creative because we forget, I think we often forget that God first created. That was the first thing he did. And so like, God's a creative being and we have that in us to be creative, but we kinda lose that as we get older. We think that's some childish thing or whatever.

Aaron Dahl: 14:09

But the creative and the playful mind, I think, is how we kinda stay one of the ways we can stay healthy. And

Mark Odland: 14:15

Yeah. Yeah. I I love that, Aaron. I mean, I don't know if this might be a stretch or not, but, mean, I remember in one of my religion classes just kind of wrestling with this idea, kinda going off what you said of not only is God an artist, but I don't know. The idea of of tending, of of being part of creation, tending the garden, naming the animals, stewarding it, there's this creativity in that too.

Mark Odland: 14:44

And Mhmm. And when you throw out that question, what does it mean to be made in the image of God? Right? Because we're told in scripture, you know, we are made in the image of God. But, you know, Jesus, you know, the the the son of that person of the Trinity is the only one of the trinity who took on a physical body.

Mark Odland: 15:03

Mhmm. And so how are we created in God's image if he's not a physical body, if the father is not a physical body? And and I wonder if it's some of those traits. Right?

Aaron Dahl: 15:10

Mhmm.

Mark Odland: 15:11

It's like maybe part of being made in the image of God is being creative. Right?

Aaron Dahl: 15:16

Mhmm.

Mark Odland: 15:17

Just like just like our father, just like our dad in heaven. And, you know, it it makes me wonder if maybe he's just up there smiling when he sees us writing a song or singing a song or Yeah. Doing some artwork, you know, it's I don't know.

Aaron Dahl: 15:32

Yep. And I've I've been I'm not always perfect at this, but I've been trying to give God the credit and the glory when those type of moments happen. When I do create something beautiful, I try not to have it be from me. Like, it's I'm a I'm a vessel of God's creativity that he's gifted me with, it's it's very hard to not take credit for it. And I'm working on it, work in progress.

Aaron Dahl: 15:53

But Yeah. I think when we do that, God kinda blesses us more and gives us more of a territory to reach more people and expanded our influence. And as you've probably seen in your journey as your counseling grows, it probably is a lot of just having an open hand in this and just seeing God work through it and just blessing him and giving back and that whole circle how it works.

Mark Odland: 16:14

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. It's and it's interesting because I I feel like along with what you're saying, it's like I I like to believe that god wired us so that when we receive encouragement or praise, it's meant to feel good. It's meant to be encouraging to be able to receive it.

Mark Odland: 16:31

But then there's that fine line where it can turn into that that pride, and and then it's not god shining through me. It's like, it's my stuff. And, I mean, even with, like, a podcast like this, right, it's it's it's small, but it's growing fast. And I'm like it's like, deep down, it's like, wow. That'd be kinda cool to, like, be a big podcast, like, really big one.

Mark Odland: 16:52

Like, what and then it's like, oh, what's that about, Mark? Like Yeah. Why? Why? Because I I want fame or because I wanna help people.

Mark Odland: 17:00

And I'd like to think it's more wanting to help people than the other side, but, like

Aaron Dahl: 17:04

For sure.

Mark Odland: 17:05

But, yeah, I mean, if we're really honest with ourselves, there's those temptations and forces at play and especially with talent. I mean, I mentioned to you, you know, I we didn't know each other well before before the podcast, but just doing a little snooping on YouTube. I'm like, Aaron, you got an incredible gift. Right? God God has given you incredible voice and it's powerful.

Mark Odland: 17:25

And and I could imagine that if if you're not grounded, would be a constant temptation for someone with your platform and skill.

Aaron Dahl: 17:33

Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. What one of the struggles that I've had lately is as I grow as a musician and person and leader, I have more confidence. But at the same time, does our influence determine by the number of people we reach?

Mark Odland: 17:51

Right.

Aaron Dahl: 17:52

And that's the struggle. Like you had said, like if your podcast only reached 10 people an episode, but it was 10 people where it made huge life impact, would it be worth it? Over 1,000,000 people, but maybe two of them came back. And it's like, we got to continue to put our effort in for the one and do it for the one person. And then the rest will kind of take, you know, it'll take its toll just but that's kind of where I've been living right now is because I've I feel like I'm at this dichotomy of my life just turning 40.

Aaron Dahl: 18:22

Like what do I want to do the next ten years of my life? Is it going to be in this music field or am I going to branch out? Because podcasting has been an, a passion of mine as well. Nice. And, but is it, is it about reaching a lot of people or is it about just, you know, having that one make an impact?

Aaron Dahl: 18:37

Because I was the one. I was the lost sheep, I've seen Oh. The full turnaround. And so

Mark Odland: 18:42

That's that's powerful. And maybe for those those who are listening out there who aren't familiar with the story, you know, there's this beautiful passage where Jesus tells the story about this shepherd. Right? And he's he's got the hundred sheep, but one of them has wandered away. And he he does the counterintuitive thing.

Mark Odland: 18:58

Right? He leaves the 99, and he goes after the one and and brings him back safe in his arms. And and there's this apparently a party afterward. Right? And just this this sense that no matter how far gone someone might feel like they are, how disconnected from God, maybe even questioning if he's out there or how he could possibly love them given their story.

Mark Odland: 19:20

It's kind of humbling, at least for me. It kinda almost makes me tear up thinking about how he's the kind of god who not just sit he doesn't sit there and wait for us to jump through hoops. He actually pursues us. And he he's he's going out there hacking through the the brush trying to find us and and bring us home, and that's such good news.

Aaron Dahl: 19:40

Yeah. Yeah. I think I heard something recently that that we take one step and God will take the other hundred to get to us. Like, all we have to do is just come a little bit, and he comes the rest because he's just waiting. And I think his eyes searched the whole world for people that are just earnestly searching for him.

Aaron Dahl: 19:58

And he's met me in a couple of times where I've just been in dire need. And that's what's kind of secured my is because I've had like rock solid moments where he's shown up where it's put me to my knees and in tears and it it's undeniable that he has met me in those type of encounters and that's kind of been my life purpose is just creating those counters for other people. So, it just solidifies their faith and then, that just lights a fire for the people that are around them and and so on, the ripple effect.

Mark Odland: 20:25

Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Well, I'd love to hear too, Aaron, about, like, I mean, you connected with this about music being so powerful, obviously, in your life, not only how you serve others, but how you connect with God. In your routine, whether it's preparation or whether it's actually leading worship or in your quiet time just playing, are there moments, like, where it's like, man, that's it.

Mark Odland: 20:49

Like, you're just totally in the flow, totally just feeling alive. Is is it is it all of the above, or are there certain moments that are more than others where you just kinda feel like this is it?

Aaron Dahl: 21:04

Yeah. I I think it's shifted a little bit since music became my career where I'm just around music so much that I I'd I've had moments where I don't listen to it as much leisurely as I used to, but there are definitely a lot of moments that are just deep. It's just like an electricity that goes through me where, like, the song is written about me, even though it has nothing to do with me, this hard fought Hallelujah song by Brandon Lake. It was so powerful to my soul. It was like, God gave him that song to give to me, to give to others.

Aaron Dahl: 21:35

And it's just this full moment, and it meant so much to be able to sing it for our church and just to make an impact that those are the moments that I live for. Those are those mountaintop moments. And we want to stay up on the aintop and it's hard to come back down and finding way to navigate that is always tricky. That's probably more your field than mine. The mountaintop moments are what we live for for sure in this field.

Mark Odland: 22:04

Yeah. It's it's it's true. Right? I mean, it's I don't know what study I came across, but it had something to do with we get we get this, like, dopamine high that that comes with a beautiful moment. And it's like if we don't actually let ourselves spend a little time in the after it comes back down and kind of just like sometimes if we go for the next next high too quickly, then it's almost like the bar gets set so high that it takes even a higher high to I mean, this is like recovery language.

Mark Odland: 22:36

Right? But Yeah. Think about it when it comes to something beautiful like serving or or talent. My I think I saw an interview with Green Bay Packers, former Green Bay Packers quarterbacker and Rogers, like, after he won the Super Bowl. And after the high, he kinda crashed down to this emotional low, and he's like, well, now what?

Mark Odland: 22:57

Yeah. Like, what what's next? You see I'm supposed to be elated. I'm supposed to be riding high.

Aaron Dahl: 23:04

Mhmm.

Mark Odland: 23:04

And now I feel kinda depressed. Yeah. Right? And I think that's that's an interesting thing to navigate for us for us as guys is to and that that's all another podcast, right, about how we define happiness and

Aaron Dahl: 23:18

Mhmm.

Mark Odland: 23:18

And what that means in the midst of life's ups and downs and and struggles. And, I mean, I you know, thinking back to that powerful thing you shared about kind of ten percent chance to live in the hospital, not not even knowing why. Like, what what happened next to kind of, like, come out come out of that? Was it was it a a a moment of clarity? Was it a process?

Mark Odland: 23:42

Because it sounds like it was very close to, like, literally wrecking your life.

Aaron Dahl: 23:47

Yeah. It was definitely a process, and I definitely luckily had people alongside me, my parents and my then girlfriend, now wife, that kinda helped lead me into into treatment. But I think I've seen it happen too when I just cry out to God, like, I need you. I need you to put people in my life. And I think that's what it really is.

Aaron Dahl: 24:08

And that's kind of what I was gonna leave men with was just, there's, you're never too far gone. And the situation is never too bad for God not to redeem it. In fact, he loves to redeem those stories. He loves to. And he used Paul who murdered Christians, and was a horrible person to be the most impactful person of the New Testament.

Aaron Dahl: 24:29

He wrote most of the New Testament, but he was like a horrible person, but God redeems and he just he's in the business of that. So Yeah. I think that's all it is really is just crying out to God, and he'll put all the pieces together of who needs to be in their lives and all that stuff.

Mark Odland: 24:43

I love that. Yeah. I love that. It's even though there are are place times and places where as men we strive to be to be strong and disciplined and and self reliant, there is something about the exact opposite of complete surrender that can be a game changer for us. And I imagine if some guys listening to this are kinda like, yeah.

Mark Odland: 25:04

That sounds great, but, you know, I'm not even I'm not even sure he's out there or what kind of character he has. I mean, I don't know where I heard along heard it, but along the lines of, you know, it's okay to pray, god. I don't know if you're real.

Aaron Dahl: 25:18

Mhmm.

Mark Odland: 25:18

But if you are, please please help me. Right? And in you know, there are plenty of scriptures that almost indicate that somehow that's almost more faith in some ways than than someone who's I don't know.

Aaron Dahl: 25:32

Yeah.

Mark Odland: 25:32

They're acting really religious, but but they're not humble or honest enough to just be real with where they're at.

Aaron Dahl: 25:38

Yeah. Totally.

Mark Odland: 25:39

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So so that's that's interesting. So the journey and so now you're in the kind of the Twin Cities Metro Area, raising your family, leading worship.

Mark Odland: 25:51

Yeah.

Aaron Dahl: 25:52

Yep.

Mark Odland: 25:53

Yeah. Running all over the practices and activities and the crazy

Aaron Dahl: 25:58

Oh, yeah.

Mark Odland: 25:58

Helps with four kids. Right?

Aaron Dahl: 25:59

Yeah. It kind of sneaks up on you, really. And before you know it, we just our whole schedule's full of sports. And so that can be a balancing act for sure, and that's something that I'm still trying to navigate, and I'm sure I'll get wrong many times. But it's like giving them the opportunities that we wish we had, but yet not trying to live vicariously through the things that we didn't.

Aaron Dahl: 26:21

And that's tough because my first and foremost job is to be just showing them God's character and love and just telling them scripture and making sure they're memorizing it and I'm living it out. And like you said, I'm acting it. I'm not just telling it. I'm just being a passerby of my faith. But

Mark Odland: 26:42

Yeah. Yeah. We learn so much as dads, don't we? About just

Aaron Dahl: 26:47

Yep. I always tell my wife, like, we'll be okay parents, but we'll be great grandparents.

Mark Odland: 26:51

Hey. There we go. There's a lot I'm sure there's a lot of truth to that for sure. Well, you know, one of the questions we try to ask all our our guests, which is a loaded question, but it's it's that, what does it mean to be a man? What does it mean to be a real man?

Mark Odland: 27:07

And there's all sorts of cultural junk out there that muddies the waters and and and makes it, less helpful. But, without having to have the perfect answer, maybe it's just what's what's Aaron's answer? What what do you this this space in your life, what does it feel like to you?

Aaron Dahl: 27:26

Yeah. I had something kinda different written down, but what I felt like god has put on my heart was Yeah. Being being someone that would lay down their life for a friend.

Mark Odland: 27:37

Mhmm. Wow.

Aaron Dahl: 27:39

And I think that's, you know, that's the ultimate sacrifice. It's the ultimate sign of love too. Yeah. So I think that's, that's the ultimate sign of being a real man. It's not like this macho strong.

Aaron Dahl: 27:55

You know, those are characteristics, they're oftentimes just pushed to the forefront by our media and our culture. But someone that's obviously going to provide and protect for their family despite the costs, Someone that's going to be authentic and true to themselves and not get pulled into something that's not part of their morals because of X, Y, and Z.

Mark Odland: 28:19

Wow. Yeah. I mean, thanks for being real and being in the moment with that Aaron. I really could tell that struck a chord with you emotionally and and you felt that on your heart and and that is that is a powerful thing right for us to be able to look ourselves in the mirror as men and to think, you know, who who would I lay down my life for? You know, what what would that hopefully, it doesn't come to that, but if it did.

Mark Odland: 28:46

And, you know, the extreme version of that is is is physical death, which isn't the end. But then there's I think maybe you got at this a little bit with how we serve and and love and parent. There there's a kind of mini laying down of your life each day with the ways we serve and sacrifice for other people.

Aaron Dahl: 29:06

Mhmm.

Mark Odland: 29:07

And so that's yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that. It's it's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah.

Mark Odland: 29:14

Yeah. Well, this this other question ties into that a little bit. I mean, one another one of the kind of the big questions we like to ask our guests is, again, even though this life in the grand scheme of things is is kind of a vapor, it's it's very short compared to eternity. And in some ways, nothing really lasts except all the good things that are that that are that are part of God's kingdom kind of breaking into this world now. Mhmm.

Mark Odland: 29:45

Mhmm. But but in the sense of wanting to leave the world a better place than we found it, by God's grace, hopefully, ripple effects of our life continue to ripple out even after we're gone in in ways that are a blessing to other people and to the world. And so it kinda goes into that question of legacy. Right? And you're still a young guy, 40.

Mark Odland: 30:10

Right? I'm I'm 45 asking some of the same kinds of same kinds of questions. Right? It kinda feels like, alright. If, you know, god willing, hopefully, I'm only half done with my life or somewhere around there.

Mark Odland: 30:25

But Mhmm. But when that day comes, right, what would I like to what would I hope would be my legacy? Right? So that's my question for you is what what would you hope your legacy would be when people think of you and the impact that you've had or or continue to have even after you're gone?

Aaron Dahl: 30:44

Sure. I think I think about this question a lot, especially since COVID, the confrontation or the, what's the word I'm looking for? We are close to closer to death than I think I could have been. We were supposed to go on a cruise right during COVID. And we were like, if we go, we could we could all die.

Aaron Dahl: 31:07

Right? And so I just laid in bed at night, like thinking about death a lot and like looking back, if I did, would I be happy? Would there be regrets? And so I reflect on this a lot, not in like a dark way, but in like a way that's going to re energize me to be the best person every day. And so like the legacy aspect is kind of evolving as I grow, but it all comes down to love, honestly.

Aaron Dahl: 31:29

And like if I had all the answers, I had all the songs that were reached by millions, but I didn't have love, it would just be noise. And if I was the best parent and I led my kids to get triple PhDs and do all the things, I didn't have love, then it would be for nothing. And so I think it all just comes down to that. I just wanna leave a legacy of love that's, you know, being tenderhearted, being forgiving like you've been with me, you've shown up late to the first podcast and No

Mark Odland: 31:58

worries, man.

Aaron Dahl: 31:58

Giving people, you know, Jesus said, we forgive people 70 times seven. You know, it's just like another way to say we we forgive when we forgive and we forgive. So the legacy I just wanna leave is just being like the character of Jesus, really, just loving people and despite who they are and I've been around a lot of different people and and you know, treatment centers and psych wards and jails and on the street and in high circles of high profile people and. Yep. Everybody is is a person.

Aaron Dahl: 32:27

It doesn't it doesn't matter to me who how much money you have or you know, it's the it's that god cares about every person. In fact, the the people that don't have much is who we should be caring more for, the widows and the lame and the sick, the blind, the imprisoned, but we don't often do that. But when we do, we're rewarded more than we are when we pour into them. So that's the that's the God effect there.

Mark Odland: 32:51

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. That that's powerful. I mean, forgive and forgive and forgive.

Mark Odland: 32:59

Yeah. And to have a heart for, the people that Jesus had a heart for. And, and I think that's that's one of the things we really wrestle with on this podcast is that dynamic tension of in some ways, there are guys a lot of our listeners really value strength, really value self reliance, and there are really good things about that. But take the politics completely out of it and just focus on Jesus. He has some commands for us.

Mark Odland: 33:26

Right? And and and and see the world through his eyes means to to love people no matter what they look like or what they believe and to know that God loves them just as much as he loves me. And that's that's very humbling very humbling thought. You know, I mean, maybe touched on this kind of earlier our talk too, Aaron, but kind of this question of if you could leave one thing, like one piece of advice or encouragement for the guys who are listening today that hopefully could make a difference in their life, something they could kinda put into action today. Mhmm.

Mark Odland: 34:00

And if it was a small step, what do you think that might be? What's on your heart to kinda leave with guys today?

Aaron Dahl: 34:08

Yeah. I think what I had said earlier about we're never too far gone or nothing's too broken to be And it doesn't have to be like spiritually even. Can be like, you know, our marriage or our careers or our talents or our kids, like they can always get better. And I'm trying to live by this model of like 1% better, just 1% better every day. And you look back over a year, you'll start to see results.

Aaron Dahl: 34:36

And so I think just knowing that things can get better and we swim in this age of information. So I struggle with the analysis paralysis thing where there's way too much good information. So then I just don't know what to do with it also. It's just making you got to make action steps, like have a plan and write it on your mirror, write it everywhere, all over the place. I do that with my wife with ChapStick sometimes on the mirror.

Aaron Dahl: 35:06

Just write, you're loved. You know, something simple is I like remind ourselves to make an action step every day to be 1% better.

Mark Odland: 35:15

1%, man. That's that's a good a good word of wisdom. Very practical. And I think sometimes we have these lofty goals. And exactly what you said, we we have so called motivation for a day or two, and then it fizzles, and then we have that all or nothing thinking.

Mark Odland: 35:34

And toss it out the window instead of being like, alright. Back back on the saddle, man. It's just a little step backward, but went back on 1% a day. And then you look back a few months and and and go back and you're like, man, that's been a ton of progress. Yeah.

Mark Odland: 35:48

And I had this funny image when you're talking about writing it everywhere with with what do you say? Lipstick and Chapstick. Chapstick. Chapstick. Chapstick.

Mark Odland: 35:56

I'd be like

Aaron Dahl: 35:56

Lipstick works too.

Mark Odland: 35:57

I could write it on my wife's forehead so that I can see it. Yeah. He can't, but I don't know if you'd go don't should go for that. But Yeah. Worth a try.

Aaron Dahl: 36:07

I could

Mark Odland: 36:07

say Aaron Aaron told me. Yeah. And I think you need to do it.

Aaron Dahl: 36:11

It's an experiment.

Mark Odland: 36:14

Nice. Nice. Well, Aaron, what where where can people discover a little bit more about your music or whether it's personal personal music or podcasting or the the church that you serve? What would you people like to how can people find you?

Aaron Dahl: 36:32

Sure. YouTube is probably one of the better places. I'm not on a lot of the socials, which probably doesn't work good with being a musician. But yeah. Aaron Aaron Dahl.

Aaron Dahl: 36:44

You can type into Google or search on YouTube and I was in a band Emergent that had, you know, if you like heavy metal or hard rock and I'm writing more acoustic stuff now, so you're songwriter stuff about like kind of the journey.

Mark Odland: 36:57

Nice.

Aaron Dahl: 36:58

So hopefully that'll be released sometime in the next year or so. We're just kinda waiting out to feel feel out where to where to place it and the direction to go. But yeah.

Mark Odland: 37:08

Awesome. Well, it'll be in the in the, you know, description too. There'll be some we'll throw some links up there for you. And and your last name spelled d a h l?

Aaron Dahl: 37:18

Yep. That's right.

Mark Odland: 37:19

Okay. Scandinavian. Solid. Solid. That's our our next conversation is Scandinavian stuff.

Mark Odland: 37:25

Right? You got the Viking beard. You're rocking that.

Aaron Dahl: 37:28

Vikings. I like it. Baby. Yeah. Excited for the wolves.

Mark Odland: 37:32

Alright. Well, Aaron, thank you. Thank you, brother. And then god god bless you with the work that you're doing. It's been a blessing to talk with you, get to know you a little bit through the podcast, and just excited about the the work that you're doing and your your open and honest conversation with me today.

Mark Odland: 37:49

So thanks again.

Aaron Dahl: 37:50

Yeah. I really appreciate you having me, Mark. And I had one more story to share

Mark Odland: 37:55

Yes. That I

Aaron Dahl: 37:56

felt like would be impactful. I love it. I'm a visual thinker. And so maybe this will help all the men that are visual. But I was in a songwriting group with a bunch of people lately.

Aaron Dahl: 38:06

And I had this visual of like, our legacy is like, we're in this convertible Lincoln, right? Like the seventies long body Lincoln and we're like flying up our way to heaven or you know what? This is like our afterlife. Yeah. And we're going and our life is over but we have like one minute to write all these little notes.

Aaron Dahl: 38:25

Of things to throw out the window to leave behind for our kids.

Mark Odland: 38:29

Oh, wow.

Aaron Dahl: 38:29

And we only have one minute to do it but we've had our whole life of experience to know what to write. So, what are the letters that we're going to write? It's not about waiting till tomorrow to do that. It's doing them now and it's doing them daily and it's taking action to do. Like that's been my word.

Aaron Dahl: 38:48

One of the words this year is just do. Put your mouth into action and do them. So what are the letters that we're going to leave for the people behind us to make life better and make this world better?

Mark Odland: 39:01

Wow. And if you wait too long, you're not around to write those letters, are are we? Yeah.

Aaron Dahl: 39:06

That's right.

Mark Odland: 39:08

Wow. That is powerful. Yeah. I think I've got an assignment. I like it.

Mark Odland: 39:12

Thanks, Aaron. I appreciate I appreciate that final thought. That's a a great word to end on for for our listeners. And for guys who made it to the end, you know, throw in a comment. What would you write?

Mark Odland: 39:25

What would you write to your to your family and to your to your loved ones, to your circles? What would that be without overthinking it? Right? You got one minute. Just put it down.

Mark Odland: 39:35

And and, yeah, that's an exercise in re in evaluating our life and where we are and who we wanna be. And, you know, and, yeah, powerful stuff. Powerful stuff. So, again, if you're a guy out there, you're looking for some extra support, you know, escapethecagenow.com. We're here we're here to help.

Mark Odland: 39:54

And and you can also check out our links in the description box. Thanks everybody. Talk to you later. Bye.